oldschool CxC

Saturday, June 25, 2005

OK, I'll bite (sorry guys) -- Ari, you ignorant slut.

Erik, thanks for biting. Happy to have a discussion, and while I may have been a slut, those days have ended. HA HA
Am I ignorant? Maybe -- but I have my degree in US History.
Although a former Republican Southern roommate of mine said, "US History taught in California just ain't real history!" HA HA


#1 - Bush is not getting impeached. If you think he should be, then post an actual fucking argument rather than just throwing the line out there with a link to some crackpot organization for the tinfoil hat brigade. As I said before, this ain't moveon.org, so you need to persuade rather than assume we all agree. I argued for and predicted the recall of Gray Davis way back when. Can you do the same? Care to place a wager?


#1 - Bush might get impeached. I certainly think he & Cheney & Rumsfield deserve it. Would I wager on it? I'd like to, but I can't foresee these events clearly enough. There's too much Bush power over media and politics, and too much money behind NOT having a US instability.
Bush Jr is THE 2nd most powerful & influential president in the history of the USA, IMHO, bc of his Dad, THE most powerful prez, Bush Sr -- b/c of his double VP run under (brain-dead) Reagan plus presidency plus heading CIA & other 'shadow organizations' ties (plus throw in the newly revealed Saudi connections).

'Persuasion' is not really my tactic. But I will make an argument that you can ponder & respond to, if you want:

1a) Bush Sr (in CIA & as VP) helped fund Bin Laden's campaign in Afghanistan to fight the Russkies. Years later, what a shocker that the same Bin Laden coordinates a successful attack against the USA when Bush's son is President. Even more of a shocker that Bush Jr knew about it beforehand -- and did nothing to stop BEFORE or DURING except export the Bin Laden family ASAP afterwards. The Israeli govt informed him (along w/Israelis who worked at WTC -- they all took the day off), his secret service informed him, I think Bush Jr knew about the whole deal.
Why didn't Bush Jr do anything in the famous 7 min's? B/c I believe he (& Cheney/Rumsfield/Rove) were hatching a coup against US Democracy to start a period of martial law that would have allowed the Right Wing free reign. However, not enough hijackers were successful, and the military struck back despite a 'stand down' order -- shooting down one plane & perhaps others.

Ultimately, the failed coup didn't matter anyway, bc Angry Americans have been willing so far to give up our civil liberties for a religious-based purge of the US, as well as giving an OK to the US attacking unfriendly Islamic countries.

Noticed any wreckage outside the Pentagon? Supposedly a plane hit there. But no black box, no bodies. Where'd they go? Not strange? Maybe it was really a bomb & not a plane? "But who would plant a bomb INSIDE the Pentagon to go off the same day?!?" And why didn't the media accurately cover these events?

Another point --> $$$$ -- The biggest huff about the money lost in the World Trade attack was that Ossama Bin Laden had shorted airlines stocks & would profit, so they froze his accounts. How'd they find THAT out so fast? b/c they knew ... And what about all the other 'strange' investments in the market? There was NO OFFSITE b/u of the stock market. Therefore the stooge corps of the 'shadow govt' (or whatever you call the 'defense' budget corps that aren't officially the CIA that use Fed 'black budget') had their investments 'laundered'.

And I didn't mention the lying about WMD or the Downing St Memo!!

As far as Davis getting recalled & Arnold becoming Governor, that was an impressive prediction! Did you know Enron would be involved? How about Bush rejecting his appeals for Fed intervention or the rolling power blackouts engineered by Enron's Energy traders which ruined Davis AND crippled California's economy? IMPRESSIVE!



#2 - You seem a bit obsessed with Abu Graib. You call it a torture center... would you care to put this in context? Worse than the Nazis? Morally equivalent to the treatment non-muslims get when captured by Al Qaeda? Symbolic of the decadence of the western world? I think some bad things went on there, typical of power-crazed prison guard behavior. But when you look at the big picture, we handle our prisoners better than anyone in the world, or the history of the world where warfare is concerned. These are not innocents caught on the crossfire, but you appear to sympethize more with them than with our own troops. On that note, are you hoping that we fail in Iraq? Does it make you happy when troops are killed because as warmongers they had it coming plus it makes Bush look bad?


#2 - Abhu Graib -- worse than Nazis? No, it's much better than their massive death camps. Is it a torture center? Yeah, unfortunately, and not the only American one. Does this violate International Laws? Yes. Is this acceptable? Strangely for a country that values 'freedom' and 'self-determination' and protection from unusual 'search and seizure', it is now OK to invade foreign countries and torture their inhabitants. Is the US the best w/prisoners? What facts back this?

2a) I'm not sure there IS an 'Al Queda', frankly. Bush was awfully quick to name them & Bin Laden immediately after the attacks, but I've heard some Mid Eastern scholars argue there is no such organization. But the US Govt likes to have an evil 'mastermind organization' out there to fight for 'moral justification'. (Plus it's almost like a 007 plot, except the bad guy terrorist organization had a cooler name.)

Personally, my guess is that the CIA is probably the most dangerous terrorist organization EVER, but I haven't been studying that stuff closely since '92 so maybe Al Queda (if it exists) is worse -- although the WTC attack isn't enough dead to match the Central & S. American CIA-influenced Govt overthrow bodycount. Add in pre-2k Iran, Cuba. It's impressive numbers.

2b) Do I sympathize with Iraqi people more than American troops? No. Do I sympathize with people who had their country invaded and are having thousands of people imprisoned and tortured by a foreign occupying power? Yes.
Do I think they have a right to defend themselves from foreign occupation? I'll ask you -- What would Americans do?

2c) Does American troops dying make me happy? No. I'm a peace-activist, and an avowed non-violent person. I think Americans killed or Iraqis killed is all a mistake, and I'm against both. I think Nuclear Weapons are a waste of tax $ (no pun intended), and bio-weapons (also currently being developed in the USA) are bad bad bad.
I think if all the American troops had never invaded Iraq, Bush would still look bad.


#3 - I could give a rat's ass that Pacifica radio is losing its federal funding (even though, unfortunately, it isn't). Explain to me why my tax dollars should go to fund a radio station of such narrow politcal ideology when the free market supports hundreds of tv channels and thousands of radio stations of all types. And for extra credit, try not to show disdain for the American people in your answer.


3 - Public Radio including Pacifica funding -- Why should your tax dollars fund corporate media and not public media? I personally donate between $200-500 a year (when I'm working) to Public Radio. My tax per year for public media is under $2. Do you know that Europeans are shocked to find out how stilted American media coverage is? I like the 'radical spin', for once!
How much do you pay in tax credits & refunds to corporations? Subsidies to Monsanto? Subsidies to weapons manufacturers or Haliburton? Also, does the free market REALLY support big media conglomerates, or are they supported by lots of tax subsidies & loopholes, horizontally diversified companies (like GE & Microsoft & Time Warner), and (very heavily govt supported) licensing fees?

3a - Free Market -- that's a whole loaded discussion as well. I don't know WHERE this free market is supposed to be, it's certainly not in the USA or global marketplace. The subsidies in this country are vast, tariffs are used often. Instead of 'free market', I'd say a capitalist society where the govt seeks to avoid any responsibility to the poorest while protecting the right to profit for the wealthiest.

3b re: disdain for the American people -- All I can say is that I believe in the highest aspects of America's institutions. I value the ideal concept of an 'open' society that doesn't stop someone's success b/c of race, ethnicity, religion, or class. However, I also think that when America's actions shirk it's ideals is an invitation to a downfall (in some form). Final point -- while I believe the USA has modeled many impressive ideals, the denial of the 'US History of horrors' (genocide of Native Peoples, genocide of Africans, the Civil War to keep slavery, reparations for slaves, etc) rather than admitting fault and trying to address them -- this is a part of the Karma that causes outrage, frustration, and hatred (from the international community AND within this country).


(That being said, good luck on the job hunt. It's a sellers' market right now so you should be able to dictate your own terms for the most part.)


Thanks for the wish for the job. Fingers crossed.
Did I get the extra credit for respecting (most) of America & the American people?
Peez!

2 Comments:

Blogger REkz said...

Erik, thanks for biting. Happy to have a discussion, and while I may have been a slut, those days have ended. :)
Am I ignorant? Maybe -- but I have my degree in US History.
Although a former Republican Southern roommate of mine said, "US History taught in California just ain't real history!"

#1 - Bush might get impeached. I certainly think he & Cheney & Rumsfield deserve it. Would I wager on it? I'd like to, but I can't foresee these events clearly enough. There's too much Bush power over media and politics, and too much money behind NOT having a US instability.
Bush Jr is THE 2nd most powerful & influential president in the history of the USA, IMHO, bc of his Dad, THE most powerful prez, Bush Sr -- b/c of his double VP run under (brain-dead) Reagan plus presidency plus heading CIA & other 'shadow organizations' ties (plus throw in the newly revealed Saudi connections).

'Persuasion' is not really my tactic. But I will make an argument that you can ponder & respond to, if you want:

1a) Bush Sr (in CIA & as VP) helped fund Bin Laden's campaign in Afghanistan to fight the Russkies. Years later, what a shocker that the same Bin Laden coordinates a successful attack against the USA when Bush's son is President. Even more of a shocker that Bush Jr knew about it beforehand -- and did nothing to stop BEFORE or DURING except export the Bin Laden family ASAP afterwards. The Israeli govt informed him (along w/Israelis who worked at WTC -- they all took the day off), his secret service informed him, I think Bush Jr knew about the whole deal.
Why didn't Bush Jr do anything in the famous 7 min's? B/c I believe he (& Cheney/Rumsfield/Rove) were hatching a coup against US Democracy to start a period of martial law that would have allowed the Right Wing free reign. However, not enough hijackers were successful, and the military struck back despite a 'stand down' order -- shooting down one plane & perhaps others.

Ultimately, the failed coup didn't matter anyway, bc Angry Americans have been willing so far to give up our civil liberties for a religious-based purge of the US, as well as giving an OK to the US attacking unfriendly Islamic countries.

Noticed any wreckage outside the Pentagon? Supposedly a plane hit there. But no black box, no bodies. Where'd they go? Not strange? Maybe it was really a bomb & not a plane? "But who would plant a bomb INSIDE the Pentagon to go off the same day?!?" And why didn't the media accurately cover these events?

Another point --> $$$$ -- The biggest huff about the money lost in the World Trade attack was that Ossama Bin Laden had shorted airlines stocks & would profit, so they froze his accounts. How'd they find THAT out so fast? b/c they knew ... And what about all the other 'strange' investments in the market? There was NO OFFSITE b/u of the stock market. Therefore the stooge corps of the 'shadow govt' (or whatever you call the 'defense' budget corps that aren't officially the CIA that use Fed 'black budget') had their investments 'laundered'.

As far as Davis getting recalled & Arnold becoming Governor, that was an impressive prediction! Did you know Enron would be involved? How about Bush rejecting his appeals for Fed intervention or the rolling power blackouts engineered by Enron's Energy traders which ruined Davis AND crippled California's economy? IMPRESSIVE!

#2 - Abhu Graib -- worse than Nazis? No, it's much better than their massive death camps. Is it a torture center? Yeah, unfortunately, and not the only one. Does this violate International Laws? Yes. Is this acceptable? Strangely for a country that values 'freedom' and 'self-determination' and protection from unusual 'search and seizure', it is now OK to invade foreign countries and torture their inhabitants.

2a) I'm not sure there IS an 'Al Queda', frankly. Bush was awfully quick to name them & Bin Laden immediately after the attacks, but I've heard some Mid Eastern scholars argue there is no such organization. But the US Govt likes to have an evil 'mastermind organization' out there to fight for 'moral justification'. (Plus it's almost like a 007 plot, except the bad guy terrorist organization had a cooler name.)

Personally, my guess is that the CIA is probably the most dangerous terrorist organization EVER, but I haven't been studying that stuff closely since '92 so maybe Al Queda (if it exists) is worse -- although the WTC attack isn't enough dead to match the Central & S. American CIA-influenced Govt overthrow bodycount. Add in pre-2k Iran, Cuba. It's impressive numbers.

2b) Do I sympathize with Iraqi people more than American troops? No. Do I sympathize with people who had their country invaded and are having thousands of people imprisoned and tortured by a foreign occupying power? Yes.
Do I think they have a right to defend themselves from foreign occupation? I'll ask you -- What would Americans do?

2c) Does American troops dying make me happy? No. I'm a peace-activist, and an avowed non-violent person. I think Americans killed or Iraqis killed is all a mistake, and I'm against both. I think Nuclear Weapons are a waste of tax $ (no pun intended), and bio-weapons (also currently being developed in the USA) are bad bad bad.
I think if all the American troops had never invaded Iraq, Bush would still look bad.

3 - Public Radio including Pacifica funding -- Why should your tax dollars fund corporate media and not public media? I personally donate between $200-500 a year (when I'm working) to Public Radio. My tax per year for public media is under $2. Do you know that Europeans are shocked to find out how stilted American media coverage is? I like the 'radical spin', for once!
How much do you pay in tax credits & refunds to corporations? Subsidies to Monsanto? Subsidies to weapons manufacturers or Haliburton? Also, does the free market REALLY support big media conglomerates, or are they supported by lots of tax subsidies & loopholes, horizontally diversified companies (like GE & Microsoft & Time Warner), and (very heavily govt supported) licensing fees?

3a - Free Market -- that's a whole loaded discussion as well. I don't know WHERE this free market is supposed to be, it's certainly not in the USA or global marketplace. The subsidies in this country are vast, tariffs are used often. Instead of 'free market', I'd say a capitalist society where the govt seeks to avoid any responsibility to the poorest while protecting the right to profit for the wealthiest.

3b re: disdain for the American people -- All I can say is that I believe in the highest aspects of America's institutions. I value the ideal concept of an 'open' society that doesn't stop someone's success b/c of race, ethnicity, religion, or class. However, I also think that when America's actions shirk it's ideals is an invitation to a downfall (in some form). Final point -- while I believe the USA has modeled many impressive ideals, the denial of the 'US History of horrors' (genocide of Native Peoples, genocide of Africans, the Civil War to keep slavery, reparations for slaves, etc) rather than admitting fault and trying to address them -- this is a part of the Karma that causes outrage, frustration, and hatred (from the international community AND within this country).

Thanks for the wish for the job. Fingers crossed.
Did I get the extra credit for respecting (most) of America & the American people?
Peez!

10:56 PM  
Blogger A. said...

ohhhhh, snap.. Ari I hope you have a plan for when the men in black show up for you. tin foil hats are much less effective than lead.

5:24 PM  

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